It says we can discuss body Image in here, so I'd like to I know this isn't very deep, but here goes:
You know one of the things that bothers me so much about this culture (and I admit I'm a victim of it to, unfortunately) is that there is this stigma about women that they have to be perfect. I noticed this a couple years ago when I was reading Newsweek during the presidental election scandal that they put this woman on the front cover and her face was "perfect"-you could see no pores. Then the next issue the put I think Jesse Jackson on the front cover and you could see his pores, wrinkles, everything. What gets me is that women have to be "perfect". Long hair, big eyes, tiny nose, full lips, perfect complexion, big, proportional chest, tiny waist, and slender hips, no stretch marks, cellulite, and perfectly bronzed skin and perfectly manicured and pedicured feet. It doesn't matter ifhe body looks good at a size 10,12 or even 18, she has to be a size 0-4 and the occasional taboo- size 6 . Even though in modeling (which is used to determine the "standards" for women) a 34 inch waist for guys is the norm- there is no national campaign pushing guys to have 34 inch waists and be rippling with muscle. Unless you count all the advertising from muscle magazines and television, we still get more advertising directed towards us. First of all everywhere you look there is some scantily clad young woman hanging on whatever she is selling or seductively using it. When they show nudity in movies what do they show the woman's breasts and butt and the guys butt- Whoa a butt is nudity now?!
People are like, "oh it's the media's fault," and i just don't agree with that. If something was being sold on television that the public didn't like, would they keep trying to sell this product? No, they wouldn't. But the idea of thinness the people are buying so the media keeps selling. We have to teach the children and ourselves now, to be healthy and fit, not stick thin. I mean I want to be 34-22-34, but I'm not going to exercise 24/7 (I just don't hae that much time for that) and I'm definitely NOT going to stop eating, especially not my toffee, and my ben and jerry's butter pecan ice cream, and my strawberry ice cream and my reeses, and my toffee OH- I LOVE TOFFEE. Anyways- You see what I'm saying. It;s all about moderation and we have to teach the children to stop buying this "crap" What do you think? Please respond, I love listening to what others think about this.

I think the media has a very strong grip on it all. I know kids tend to at least be somewhat programmed by it... and there are plenty of impressionable adults out there as well! I know some men who said they weren't into certain styles/certain accentuated parts of women until MTV started pushing them.

On the plus side, at least people think Callista Flockhart is too thin (yuck bones!). Maybe the incredibly shrinking woman thing will end? I remember when size six was supposedly perfect...

I guess it's still a man's world... which means the women have to look perfect while everyone can live with however than man looks. It is depressing.

Anyway, anyone who revolves around perfect like that is going to have problems, be it a guy who can't find the perfect woman or a woman who has lost herself to finding the image. I aim for "better" but don't let it control me.

I'm not quite sure I would go with any of your poll options though. The fantasy pill for me would be perfectly perfect in every way!

sugarfiend

none of the pill options works for me. I wanna look like Sarah Michelle Geller, very very tiny, but still strong. Although ideally I would like to be busty as well. I'm busty now, but its all flab and discusting. When I got to 110 this summer, I was so disapointed because I looked so terrible. I always though that would be so nice and small. I wasn't I need to get to 100 and reevaluate. I do exercise but not enough I guess, because my body did not look nice. And although many photos are altered, look at the style part of Star or enquier, thoses are real , and the stars still look amazing. Plus at the clubs and in the beach I see girls with just as nice figures as movies stars, so it is possible. Right now I take a 2 or 4 in most stores, my measurements are 35, 23, 36 or so but my body is discusting and flabby. I think overwieght looks awful (sorry buts that how I feel), and I will never, ever, ever be happy with myself I'f I not thin. I'm happy with other traits of myself, eg won a scolarship in nursing school, but the matter of my appearance will always bother be, until I am goodlooking. I don't know how all these gross people can feel good about themselves when I feel so crappy. I sometimes feel like the closer I get the farther I am. Just my thoughts today...

Hi Frankstoy
Here's my 2 cents: Society is really sick the way that women (in particular) are judged as people according to the way they look.

Nobody seems to qestion why thin is conflated with beautiful, but I suggest that I embodies a whole heap of other cultural values and ideologies Self-control, sucess, happiness, etc. Conversly fatness symbolises lack of self-control, lack of morals, laziness etc

So in a way it's political, 'cos it keeps women in a less powerful position than men in MANY ways, it's also ecconomic: the diet industry cashes in on selling dieting as a way to achieve all these things (when obviously it doesn't).

It also reinforces the domination of particular classes and ethnicities (ie the higher class the thiner you are - look at celebs, also, and the "ideal" is blond, tanned, thin, which marginalises ethinic minorities who don't fit)

So you are right, I think. The media is not solely responsible, but it is a big payer in reflecting cultural ideologies, and I think there is ALOT of investment from alot of different quarters in maintaining the status -quo.

I don't think that you should give up Ben & Jerrys either! I eat pretty much whatever I want in defiance of those pressures. The crazy thing is, that when you don't stress about it, you begin to eat normally anyway. So I am a bit bigger than the "ideal", but I eat mostly healthily, exercise sometimes, and so I must be at "My ideal" and that's all that should matter really. I haven't checked a scale in years.

I'm just not prepared to devote my life (because that's would reaching societiy's ideal weight would mean) to achieving a weight that I wasn't meant to be. How boring! I'd rather devote myself to enjoying life.

(Whew! Sorry about that rant!)

It's not only about being thin the reason all women want to lose weight.. The reason I want to lose the excess is to give my body a break of the pain ....You see I suffer arthritis and fibromyalgia all at the young age of 43 and I KNOW by losing the weight I can lessen the agony...Mind you I will never be cured...So you see.. for me it's not tv or newspapers or glamour magazines that are influencing me to wanting to lose the weight.. and I bet it's the same for more than half of us members here at diettalk...

No matter how thin I get, I will never look like Mel... so why bother worrying about something I can never be? Why should I worry about what society says about me? I just really do not care what society things about my physical looks. I care how I look and that is enough.

Hear hear!:D
By the way, John, I hope your insurance is sorted

Hi Joanne,
I totally agree with you that to relive pain is a good reason to lose weight. There is really alot of emotional pain here in these forums which is so heartbreaking. I am do think that alot of it is that people hate the way they look because such negative values are attached to fat! That is just so unfair and sad!

What bothers me is that there's so much focus on thinness, anorexia, etc., when in reality these are not epidemic problems in our society. 80% of Americans over the age of 25 are overweight or obese, according to BMI. A magazine with a skinny model on the cover is not saying this, doctors are! While different cultures have different views on beautiful weights, the truth is that 10,000 years ago, no one, or very few people were overweight! Our bodies aren't meant to be fat. We simply want what makes us fat because through our evolution, we couldn't eat whenever we pleased, so when we did eat, our bodies made sure we wanted what gave us the most energy. But this energy, unlike today, couldn't be stored in excess because it was all used to fuel our very active hunting-gathering lifestyles. In a sense, our bodies still think they are living in a time and place that no longer exists. So, while we may chastise and criticize our society's desire to be thin, in all reality, that skinny model's BMI is closer to what is recommended than are the BMIs of 80% of Americans.

I voted to not take the pill - why?

I have grown so much within on this journey of weight loss - that I would not give that growth up for any thing :)

Jade

I was a lucky kid whose mother instilled a lot of pride and confidence into. I thank her every day. It gives me the ability to (at most times) say to the world to take a hike if they don't like it. That goes for my body as well.

I am doing this for me. Not for society. Not for my boyfriend. Not for the random gawking males on the street. I am doing this so I can enjoy my body and love living in it. If you can do that without shedding some pounds, more power to you. But I would take the mucular healthy pill. Heck then I would just have to maintain my looks.

But I think maybe Jade was right, part of the appreciation is in the journey.

The media is stupid, but we all still listen to it all. Why? I have no idea. Wish I did.

I voted to take the pill to be muscular and healthy. Why? Because I am sick of the whole battle, that's why.

If I could look like anybody famous in the whole world, I would want to look like Catherine Zeta-Jones. She has a beautiful body but I don't think she is "too" skinny.

BlueJae,

You know what? I thought the same thing. But then I came across this article that had the BMIs of different models/actresses, and it turns out CZJ is underweight. Her BMI is below 18.5! I was shocked because she is one of the more "curvy" stars, but I guess that says a lot about the stars we actually think are too thin!

How is CZJ's BMI with an extra 10lbs? Maybe the camera does add 10 lbs!

...or maybe we're just all warped by the media now.

sugarfiend

Society's vision of beauty is fickle. In tough times the rounder woman is the ideal. In times of plenty, the skinny woman. There are beautiful women in all sizes, beautiful men too. The media is at fault in one way. The media is so interesting that we are willing to sit in one place for hours at a time, and if we can eat so much the better. Parents can't say no to their children, and send them out to play, do yard work, try a hobbie. Life is easier with TV. So tell the gardener to keep it down, my show is on!

<<How is CZJ's BMI with an extra 10lbs? Maybe the camera does add 10 lbs! ...or maybe we're just all warped by the media now.>>

They actually did this think in Sunday's USA Today and it said that the camera on the average adds nine pounds to the person because of the technique of putting a 3-dimensional object (a person) onto a 2-dimensional object (paper). So that is true that the camera actually does "add pounds". Besides the only reason that Catherine Zeta-Jones is considered "curvy" is because she has a C cup and not a flat chest. The media has a blurred "vision" of everything.:(

Did you all just overlook Raven McCoy's post?

"I don't know how all those gross people can feel good about themselves when I feel so crappy." (A size 2/4 - 118 lbs.)

Please!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes, ThinLynn, some of us saw the remark and chose to ignore it. Raven obviously has severe body image issues. She feels disgusting and flabby at 118. Her comment was actually a testament to our healthy ideas of what real women are. We are more than a size. Raven is too obsessed with her body image to even consider the crowd she's hanging out with(here). She is too involved in her own suffering to even realize to whom she speaks. Some of us realize this and cannot be offended because we know she said this out of her own personal anguish and did not intend to insult anyone, obviously. She feels confused as to how overweight (really overweight) people can have any self esteem at all. She does not realize that self esteem comes from accomplishment. Weight is a very small part of it. It comes with being a good person, a good daughter, a good neighbor, a wife, a mother, a friend, etc. It doesn't come with a weight or waist size. It doesn't come with big breasts or long legs. Self esteem cannot be dictated by the media or Hollywood. Or Sarah Michelle Geller. Raven honey, stop trying to be like this star or that star. Stop beating yourself up. As long as you compare yourself to them you will never be happy. Take the body you have and love it. Take care of it, eat wisely and exercise. You don't have to look like the women on TV to be beautiful. Develop your inner self. Remember; pretty is as pretty does.
ThinLynn, soliciting angry responses to that comment was not nice OR constructive. It did not seem to serve any worthwhile purpose. Really, Cat

Just because she is a size 2/4 and 118 pounds does not make her "okay" in the sense that she could be 118 pounds of fat. Just because she is a smaller size does not mean she doesn't look good. I've seen people who look good in a size 20 and others who don't. Likewise just because you are a size 0 doesn't make you look good.

My two cents: yes, none of us here want to be a 2/4. I don't. I also never will because I am curvy (when I lose this weight I might be able to give J Lo a run for her money). I have a nice round ass and love it. I have large strong thighs (from ballet in my younger years) and big child bearign hips. And I love all of that! So, I don't particularly want to go lower than 135 (the high end for my weight).

However, there are those who are not curvy but naturally thin. Sometimes, the weight they gain (even 2-3 pounds) is really obvious on them. They dont have a butt hips and legs to hide the weight. Sometimes it is all in their tummy and displayed very prominently. She might not be overweight by BMI standards, she might just be out of good shape which is making her look big.

However, being thin is very tough for most of us here. And we are working very hard to have a positive body image. We are not disgusting (in fact, I often win more attention at bars than my 'skinny' friends). We have beautiful features and a wonderful capability to love and support and feel. There is no need to put us down. After all, this is supposed to be a support group. It'll be tough to get our support if you offend us.

I think every woman is beautiful. Isn't it time that you agreed with me that you are too?

<<My two cents: yes, none of us here want to be a 2/4. I don't. I also never will because I am curvy (when I lose this weight I might be able to give J Lo a run for her money). I have a nice round ass and love it>>
I want to be a size 2/4.

I find it hard to believe that anyone could read a post in which overweight people (women) are called "gross' and not consider that an insult.

We ARE talking about BODY IMAGE here!

It also says a lot that FranksToy is 5 ft. 11 and wants to be a size 2 - 4. Body image? Franks"TOY"? Maybe Frank is into Barbie dolls? What kind of "image" is THAT for a woman to live up to?

ThinLynn, How can a well adjusted person take what this young lady said as an insult? Yes, we ARE talking body image here and Raven has a problem with hers and so will have a problem with ANY woman who is literally not skin and bones. This is what's considered beautiful by the media. We have Calista Flockhart on Cosmo. Sarah Michelle Geller looks like a poster child for anorexia but is touted as the ideal female. To use your expression: PLEASE!!! I truly am FAT by all measures and wouldn't want to be 23 and so obsessed with my body that I feel disgusting at 118lbs. I cannot, nor should others, take her comment as an insult considering her obvious pain. This is real for her, not just something she said to hurt or offend. I do not think that was her intention. So now the obvious question is: What's yours? If your intentions are to help her have a better body image - more power to you, if not then you need to examine why you take offense so easily that you are willing to wage war and cause more pain to someone who is already in pain. Raven, I hope you keep posting and find the support you need to feel better about yourself. Obviously, you are not alone - Frank's Toy and Perfectparanoia have good things to say and are supportive. And ThinLynn, since you are questioning "Frank's Toy" about her handle, what is this"You can't fix "stupid" about"? Sounds really negative. Cat

I've changed my tag line often in my 20+ months at DietTalk.

I actually changed it again just recently when another DietTalker started to follow me around the boards, challenging every single thing I said.

One thing I've never changed is my NAME.

Another is my attitude.

No one has the right to come to this website and call fat women "gross"!

So you go right ahead and put me down, and stand up for that kind of attitude if you want to. But remember that it's the Barbie dolls on the cover of Cosmo that you so despise that you are aligning yourself with.

<<No one has the right to come to this website and call fat women "gross"!>>
No one has the moral right to go anywhere and call women fat, let alone this website (I say that because of the constitutionality of the freedom of speech).
<<It also says a lot that FranksToy is 5 ft. 11 and wants to be a size 2 - 4. Body image? Franks"TOY"? Maybe Frank is into Barbie dolls? What kind of "image" is THAT for a woman to live up to?>>
Just because I want to be a size 2/4 doesn't mean I will be. I'm not killing myself over it, and maybe if I ever get down to a size 8 or 6 I like the way I am and not want to go any further.
I used to play with Barbie dolls, and sometimes I play with my sister just because I'm so nice, even though I'm 16. My "handle" (it just sounds soo funny- the word "handle") comes from a television show on Nickelodean (about a turtle named Franklin) that I watched since it's syndication and it's also my boyfriend of 2 years name. So it's meant to be i'm his novelty(a synonym of toy- if you will). People have aspirations of being professional athletes, everyone can't be one, but what would the world be like if they didn't TRY. If you don't TRY you have nothing. And My 3-cents of "You can't fix stupid". Maybe you're right, you might be able to fix stupid but you sure can't walk a mile in the other's person's shoes. You can speculate all you want but you DON'T know the situation. I thought we were supposed to be talking about the American Woman's Body Image, not just specifics, but whatever I guess.

and what is it you are being so catty about? is this an argument over which "body image" is the correct one or is it a discussion about body image and it's effect on our psychological well being. i think someone's dogma just bit someone else's cattiness. get over it ladies... live and let live. lovepeter:(

That'a a good idea, Peter. Hugs, Cat

Hey, don't want to stir anything up, but felt I should reply. The last thing I ever wanna do is hurt other peoples' feelings. I felt terrible after reading this whole thing. But....the topic of disscussion is body image, and I was being honest. I admire and am impressed by those with high self esteem and good body image, but cannot understand it... when I look at my own naked reflection...:c(
Plus I'm not a "real" size 2, just in the stores that make the sizes bigger each year, so we will feel better about ourselves and buy more. I think I'd be a 10 or so in high couture, I was in a movie this summer, (about 3's company) set in 77 and everyone had to take WAY bigger sizes then they do in current clothes.
I know that looks aren't everything, I like to discuss body image.
Once again, I really should be more considerate of other members' feeling.

Hey Raven, Don't worry, we are BIG people here. Emotionally as well as physically:) Sometimes we all suffer from foot in mouth syndrome:( Talking from experience, Hugs, Catlady

I believe when we look in the mirror, we see past the flesh, and that is what we are really judging, I am saying this from my past experience, I am tall, and big..
My teen years, I was either, at or close to my goal, yet I could barely look at myself in the mirror, because during that time, I was a praticing alcohalic , I would look in the mirror, and squint my eyes, and to not see the real me, only the outline, because the inside was UGLY, so I felt ugly and fat on the outside, then over the years, my body grew, but I also dealt with many things, and went from Self Hate, to learning to Love myself, now I look in the mirror and its really strange, (I think some of course is denial after gaining) but I like who I am, and I think its because I see past the flesh, they say, the eyes are a mirror to the soul, so since we are not just flesh beings, and have Heart and spirit, I also see that when I look into the mirror,
So I also marvel, that at 17, I couldnt look in the mirror and like who I was, even though I was at goal,
Yet today, I look and Like this person, and I am far from Goal, GO FIGURE!!!!
Not that I am not going to keep working to get rid of what I call the evil twin, that come to live in my body LOL
Seeing our whole selfs is important, and realizing I dont have to hate who i am today, to change and become a better person.
Take Care Leene..

I may have just skewed the poll some, I didn't read about taking the 'fantasy pill' so just voted that I wanted to be muscular and healthy.. Which I will be but won't take a pill to get that way..

In fact I'm pretty muscular and healthy now, just have a bit of fat covering up the muscles but hey, they are emerging...

Personally I feel the good way to get a good body image is to get mind off self and start doing for others, then we will feel good inside and it will be a lot easier to look in the mirror and like what we see.. But do feel I need to lose wt to be healthier so am in the process of doing that also..
just my .02 worth

Hi Leene! Sounds like you have studied this a bit:) Also, sounds like you have a healthy view of your self :) Funny how (or sad) that our body image changes with the life we're living. Good luck with your, "evil twin'!!!:D Hugs, Cat

Body Image is a state of mind. We can change our own minds or let others do it for us.
I am a black woman. Therefore, most popular images do not even look close to me or anyone in my family so I do not stress about them. I know latina and asian women must have it even harder then I. They have even less images in the media.
I also know that if you feel bad about yourself now at the heavier weight. You will be feeling bad about yourself in the thinner weight.
Just like money doesn't make you happy, it only allows you to do more things. I am sure thin will work the same way.

Its no big thing.. If you choose to look at magazines and stare at bodies we are most likely not going to have- then who wouldnt be a bit BITTER over it all. haha they have polls somewhere showing that women feel depressed after looking through magazines. WHY. i mean i understand why but WHY WHY WHY if u can only be happy and accept yourself it is a big step. low self esteem will power and lack of control will not get anyone anywhere. These are all components to working your way up to get the body u want. and we ALL know some people have unrealistic goals, shallow goals and goals they set and tell to make everyone eles not feel so good about themselves. I mean why no offence would someone be going on and on about wanting to be 100 lbs. its insecurity - and it makes them feel good to say such things. We ALLL must be strong and work with what we have b/c if u dont ur goals will be shattered before you start on em. Maing unrealistic goals is quite common and maybe we should all step back and make a plan to how we can get to our REALISTIC goal. and before you start ask yourself if it is NEEDED to be healthy or WANTED to be like models in magazines.

wannabebarbie, you make some really good points about how we look and what we say about our goals, I know I have been guilty of having pride in my goals without doing anything about it, like It would make it more important because My ideals or desires are high, and Great point also about the seeking and thinking about a healthy Goal...Keep on taking care of YOU!!! you know your worth it and that healthy goal your speaking of.

Thanks CATLADY!!, I just saw your post, You sound like your on your way also... Good for you!!
LOL yes ms evil twin has her eviction papers!!
Love Leene

well thanx- I just hope no one looks at those magazines and gets depressed- its SO not worth it. I used to do it. but its funny how thsoe models actually stay skinny. NOT FUNNY but life threatening and ridiculous. oh AND they all have personal trainers and like a stick of celery a day. STUPID! we all know if we even try that we;d fail so why try something that is set up for failure. Healthy diet and exercise SEEMS so hard when u dont have time to "eat healthy" or "workout" but nonoe should say they are ready to lose weight unless they are ready to change their lifestyle

I agree with Leene & wannabebarbie about setting realistic goals. That is some time hard to do. I also thinkn wannabebarbie is correct about weight loss and healthy living is a lifestyle change. I think that is why people have a hard time. They aren't good with change.

OK I have a low body image it is one of the things I am working on. I tend to look in the mirror and see only what is wrong with me. I know in my mind I am a wonderful person however that does not make me feel better about myself. I feel if I took a pill and poof was thin I would not learn to love the person that is inside me no matter what I look like on the out side. I am learning that now from this process of losing weight.

Sixy:rose:

Sixy,
Learning to love yourself as a whole person is one of the most important things you can learn.

Have you seen the latest pictures of Cameron Diaz and Kate Winslet, admitting to studio enhanced photo's .
Why claim they're so happy with the way they look and then end up looking like someone else.
Ellie

what scares me most of all is that my little girl is going to grow up surrounded by the media. Regardless of what I say and do, the Brrittanys, the girls gone wilds, the Gap clothes forms...that's how she'll measure herself, regardless of all the whys and whereforeses and platitudes. I owe it to myself and her to be the best I can be--mostly mentally--to give her a strong touchstone. I really want her to like herself.

Jessica,

I think, if help build your daughters self-esstem and don't project your weight issues on to her. She will be better equiped to to reject the medias definition of a woman, happiness, and sucess.

In some ways maybe my mom had a better idea if she needed to look 10 pounds thinner she just got herself a tight girdle , voila
instant diet and you got to take it off at the end of the day :) !
Now that is considered uncool you gotta count every calorie and do those &*^%$ crunches to lose those 10 lbs

Hey Lisa-- This bbs is the only place I discuss my weight in any kind of negative light, it's a forum where I can be honest and find support. I do not let my sister or my mother say negative things about themselves in front of my baby, nor do I, and I do have a lot of self love--it took quite a bit of therapy to get here!!
Tummyflab--omg!! I got a Nordstrom flyer and THEY'RE BAAAACK--these were "spanks" kinda long biker shorts to hold it in!! !? Oh well...

That's nice Jade, really...I give you a lot of credit for overcoming another typical American trait; impatience and a desire for that quick and easy remedy...good for you...I think that is a big step for succeeding on this road to a healthy, long lasting weight loss and life style.

I'll be honest...I was torn between the one I chose; healthy but too thing and muscular and healthy. Answering the way I did just showed me that I still have some anorexic tendencies (that is why I come here, not so much weight loss just healthy eating), and its a shame too that I feel that way...I don't understand why either...I get so much more postive attention now (at about 30 pounds...and within healthy range...more than I was a year ago). Its strange though too...I think that anyone but myself looks better with curves, muscles, tone, and a little meat...I guess my thought about myself are changing slightly and slowly as I enjoy the compliments on my booty I get which def weren't coming 30 pounds ago but the "American" mentality is still there a little.

I went to a private all-girls highschool when I was teenager. (This was in the 1980's when the impact of media on womens self-image was just starting to be understood).

Regardless of whether or not the girls were repeating the stereotypes that media was feeding them or just being themselves-- they were really cruel.

I was chubby in highschool and learned the only way to survive there socially was to diet, excercise and get designer clothing. After trying for two years I got down to 167lbs, which was about as thin as I could be at 5'8" and possessing a large body frame. (I really am big boned!)

Anyway-- at that point I knew I would never be as thin as the ideal-- and that I couldn't be that thin. The sad part is that there is no real discusssion in the media of the fact that not everyone can be supermodel thin... television shows like 'The Swan' make people think with surgery and weight loss they can become models. Its just SO wrong.

Jessica

I know that you will train your daughter right and help her to over look what everyone else says is what a woman should look like. For a while she may think what the media and the rest of the world is true, but if you show her that it is better to be herslf and not what others want her to be, then she will have the strength one day to come back to that thought. She will no longer care what everone else thinks and learn to be herself. I figured all that out around the 10th grade and gave up on what everyone else thought and started to worry about what I wanted and what I thought. All you can do is be there for her and be the best mother, you know how to be. You never know, maybe you will do such an awesome job teaching her that she doesn't want to look like everyone else that she won't ever care what they think about her. Even if she does take stock in it for a while, she will let it go eventually.

I would love to be ale to blame the media, McDonalds or anyone else for my current situation. The truth is that I happily ate and ate and ate myself into obesity. I'm not sure I have the willpower to turn it around.

But it sure was fun getting there! :laugh:
http://pic5.picturetrail.com/VOL95/2105949/4090267/80346238.jpg

dangel, you are very pretty. This is a great picture of you.

So what diet are you on? Just curious. I am not really on a diet persay (sp). I am just making sure that I eat healthy, you know good carb, low sugar, more green, more protein, and less fat.

Yea, you are right to, "it sure was fun getting there!", but it will be more fun for me when I am no longer 152lbs, 142lbs, 140lbs, 139lbs, but instead 170lbs or 130lbs (where ever in that range is the healthiest weight for me).

Thanks for the nice compliment! :o Its not such a pretty sight when you can see the rest of me. :sigh:
Well, I have been on the "see-food" diet, but wanting to change things now. I weighed 120 pounds when I was 16 and double that now at 28. I know I can't continue like this but have never really been able to stick to a diet. That's how I came to this site to try to find a way to motivate myself to stick with eating less over the long run.

dangel

I am exactly were you are, a bit younger, but weight wise I am where you are. I understand all your pain and fears and probebly even have just as many or more.

One thing I have learned from this site and Dr PHil, is you don't need to go on a diet to loose weight. All you need is to want it, eat better and exersice. If you need any support in these areas PLEASE, let me know. We can suport each other.

Let me know what you need, and I will be there A.S.A.P.

Good Luck girl, remember, I am here for you and so are the rest of the people on this sight.

I did not read all the discussion because it will take a too long time for me.... :o
I just wanted to add some things on the topic

in France , USA have been depicting like the place where people are overweighted and eat hamburgers all day and night.... I deeply think that it's not so obvious .

nowadays , the obesity rate in France is increasing really dangerously whereas french people were convinced to be the country of good cooking ( I don't know how to say "l'art culinaire" ).

so, obesity is not a problem of hamburgers or not , but a deep cultural problem , the sight of the society must change.

when I suffered from anorexia I was not happy at all but I was thin to a fault! so happiness is not in thiness (does the word exist?) for me but in wellness.

It wanted to ask you a question : is a fat man so much badly seen like a fat woman is? or is it more accepted to be a fat man?
it don't know if I express myself clearly.....

I send you a bunch of motivation , hope , and kisses

The media does effect young girls and their self image. The magazine covers are really really big on that as well. Hollywood is all about being too - too thin, and I feel that people need to have better role models and have models that are average people that they see around them all the time. Even though its what inside that counts most and is most important, the reality is, if we don't take care of the inside then we begin to {health}, wise fall apart. After a certain age in life we need to become aware and more wise and take responsibility for our own actions. But it is very very hard to loose weight and exercise on a regular basis without something to motivate us and keep us going strong, forging ahead on the right path. Hopefully this will be the place along with taking repsonsibility for myself and with the guidance of God and following the lord. I know it must be hard for the younger generation to not be bomb-barded with being thin when the media,magazines,hollywood,music industry and with peer pressure making everyone believing that they have to be extra extra thin causing eating disorders,lack of self-esteem and confidence as well as a low self image of themselves. I believe its something one must begin doing by be honest with themselves and to look for good ways to motivate themselves and keeping on track. Its great to be healthy and toned and in shape. But when it gets obessive and out of hand with having a poor self image a distorted self image than its not a good thing. No one should ever try to be someone else but a better person of themself. Just a rambling thought. :)

It's not about beauty. It's about money. Behind the neurosis, there is a slickly oiled advertising industry; behind every eating disorder, ageing skin complaint, weight loss plan... there is a product being marketed and pushed. It's all about profit- so long as women keep buying into the dream of unattainable levels of beauty in a jar/cream/pill bottle, the marketing men will keep pushing em with impossibly gorgeous models as representatives.

nicotina that's a cynical view but you're right marketing plays a big role, both in encouraging us to eat more, and in trying quick fix weight loss products

in our country we have a female prime minister and she gets lots of comments on her looks. she is not overweight and is very lean but everyone comments on her hair and what her face looks like. the same doesn't happen with men. there is definitely a perception that women need to both be competent and look good - really not fair!!!

for me the impetus to lose weight came from finding out i am prediabetic, also a desire to take better care of my body. i am not proud of my body so i need to work on that aspect... oh and financial, as i really don't want to have to spend more money buying clothes to fit me when i have perfectly good ones that would fit if i lost some weight.

having said that i also feel better about myself when i am at a healthy body weight and i have more energy so i would like to find that energy again

vitalie - i hope your weight is in kilograms!!! else you will fade away

MAN vs. WOMAN FAT

- It is "ok" for men to be fat because there traditional role is ruler and the ruler always gets to make the rules.
- It is "ok" for men to be fat because women don't go off on them as a whole group 24 seven.

-fat women don't make it because they aren't wanted buy the man in power.


But for me. I have kind of dropped out of society in that respect. My husband and family are unskinny. So I don't go above and beyonf to impress them with a cycle to thinness. I also take they critism like a grain of salt because they are the pot calling the kettle black.

My whole family on both sides is unskinny. In fact there is ONLY one skinny person in my whole family-- my grandfather-- who frustratedly tells everyone who visits him in the nursing home they're fat ('cause they are).

Not only are they fat, they hmm, just seem to be big.

Even if I became anorexic and lost half my current weight I would not fit into a size 8 which is considered the ideal dress size for women.

So... well it just makes me think ideals are stupid and that variety is MUCH more interesting.

So... well it just makes me think ideals are stupid and that variety is MUCH more interesting.
I agree variety is where it is at.

Yes typically men are more attune to visual stimuli than women and so the media and advertising people use this to their advantage. They tell us that the perfect woman should look a certain way, then they show us the small handful of women that do look like that after the correct lighting and airbrushing and tell us that if we drink their beer we might get one of those women. It sounds stupid and no rational minded person would believe it but it works. Then after sell us the beer they sell the ladies all the products that they say will get them closer to that look. Us guys don't have it made though, especially if we are overweight. We can carry a few extra pounds without people saying anything, but it is a lot fewer than you think. Many women are still looking for the Brad Pitt or Johnny Depp. On top of that since in most cases we are the ones that have to do the asking out our self esteem gets shot down several times over. How can I compete with shirtless guy with the 6-pack and rock hard pecks that always shows up at every club? Or even worse since shirtless guy has screwed over so many women for some reason I get grouped in with him as a bad person only after one thing. I must say though the worst thing to happen to media would have to be "The Swan" where they take 10 women that look fine the way that they are, call them ugly then say that they can "fix" them with plastic surgery and have them compete in a beauty contest. How more blatenly superfical can you be?

Oh and to the person from France, I don't think it is as much a matter of what we eat in the states it is that amount of convinces we have that hinder the need for exercise over here. Now we do have some cities like New York that you are often required to do a lot of walking, but in general we are not made to walk any further than from our house to our car. In most European countries you end up walking a lot. You walk a few blocks every day to the tube or train, you walk to the store to get your food for a few days. If you do not walk you ride a bike. While this does not account for everyone it does account for a much larger percentage of people in Europe than it does in the states. Our cities are so spread out we end up having to drive everywhere.

But, the media makes it seem like women go after men for their status, regardless of their looks (they just happen to equate social status with physical state) and men go after women based on their looks. And then women only want your money and men only want sex.

But isnt this true. LOL.


But, the media makes it seem like women go after men for their status, regardless of their looks (they just happen to equate social status with physical state) and men go after women based on their looks. And then women only want your money and men only want sex.

Not always true. I always go for men who have good looks, and mostly the guys I have dated have been interested in my status. :D

The question then remains... who chases whom around the bedroom? :o

Well yes it is a Man's world because they do expect us to look perfect at all times. But I just can't stand a man that is so into the shape of a woman's figure. But Calista Flockhart is skinny she really does need to gain some weight. But I guess an American Women's body are all different and they can't all be the same. I mean you have your skinny, fit, medium fat, Fat, Obese their are all kinds of Women's bodies. But I"m so annoyed to see celebrities that can't gain weight to save their life they have a great body even after they give birth I sure wish I had that metabolism but sadly my weight does not stay at a standpoint and I just put on weight all the time when I get over my goal that i"m suppose o be at. But I don't like men that feel if their girl is not fit or does not weigh between the weight of 114-120lbs. I just can't stand it Guys are just so typical you need to be a video babe for them to be into you or you have to wear some hoochie mama tght fitting dress But I guess they will never change.

But I"m so annoyed to see celebrities that can't gain weight to save their life they have a great body even after they give birth I sure wish I had that metabolism but sadly my weight does not stay at a standpoint and I just put on weight all the time when I get over my goal that i"m suppose o be at..

According the the articles on those celerbrities. They work out about 4 hours a day after they give birth because they know if the stay looking like the average woman they will never be in another movie or on a magazine cover.

Personally I don't envy the movie stars-- its their job to look perfect.

Oggie,

America's Women's Body Image... Sometimes people's view of how Women's Body image they want to view one size and that is a size 2-5 and that is not right to discriminate against other individuals. I think media has a big role in that they play a big role in that. Some Anorexia victims whom are celebrities I think that is why they go anorexic. Media says that they need to maintain this exact weight or you're not fit for our magazines and they believe that they have to be this certain size and they should not have to be under that much pressure.

It makes me mad to read that reporters try to get these exclusives on actor and actress male/female singers. I don't like how Media just slanders their name through the mud actually to put it straight and very directly.Sometimes I think they want to destroy these celebs lives because sometimes it does destroy their lives well not really it just follow them through their lives and sometimes that does hender them from accepting awards because I don't know i guess the association does not want them to get it. I really can't stand how this world percieves people but back to American Women's Body I think men want their females to be a certain size or weight and I just don't understand why they don't just take them as is


But sometimes I think Celebs want to be irrational and lash out and scream at how they don't want to be this certain people. But if you do lash out then the next thing you know you will be on Extra or Entertainment Tonight and people will be seeing you for who you really are. People that look up to you will be seeing the way you really are. But I have nothing more to say on this topic

I would take the muscular and healthy. But there are no magic pills and we have to do it the old fashioned way.

Frank,

I was waiting on someone to reply on this topic :) Because I was watching America's Next Top Model on Wednesday night. A Model Contestant on their was named Kenyah and she was being criticized about being overweight she said she gained 12 pounds. But I'm wondering why would you tell someone how much you gained. If they didn't ask don't tell them.. But I guess she thought she was her friend which she is and she was only helping her. Society is really over-rated to me because they say if you're not thin you're not in.... But who really said that or made that up because you can be any shape or size they have runway or plus-size and I think that is the Modeling Agency that some people need to be in that are big boned that is what the Media says and evidently that is what Top Model says too. They ousted Toccara the Plus-size Model because she was not of their expectations X-( Well let me tell you something you don't need to be of everyone's expectations to be accepted!


As in Magazines Joanne... I agree with you some magazines are Basis to as what you look like. Because you're reflecting them and they could get bad ratings for the magazine if it does not sell well because of simply the person on the cover which is the model X-(. Just Media needs to stop being so consumed but that is their job as reporters to dig up junk on people's past and then exploit them all over the TV. I just don't like the Media

Well first off the Plus size model is a size 12-14 which is not really plus size in my opinion.

And with top model they are measured often because they have to send in the specs of the models before every shoot so there clothes can be pre-picked out for them. So in the industry there is no way to hide what is happening with your size.

But you are correct if we don't believe the hype the hype will go away.

Frank,

I was waiting on someone to reply on this topic :) Because I was watching America's Next Top Model on Wednesday night. A Model Contestant on their was named Kenyah and she was being criticized about being overweight she said she gained 12 pounds. But I'm wondering why would you tell someone how much you gained. If they didn't ask don't tell them.. But I guess she thought she was her friend which she is and she was only helping her. Society is really over-rated to me because they say if you're not thin you're not in.... But who really said that or made that up because you can be any shape or size they have runway or plus-size and I think that is the Modeling Agency that some people need to be in that are big boned that is what the Media says and evidently that is what Top Model says too. They ousted Toccara the Plus-size Model because she was not of their expectations X-( Well let me tell you something you don't need to be of everyone's expectations to be accepted!


As in Magazines Joanne... I agree with you some magazines are Basis to as what you look like. Because you're reflecting them and they could get bad ratings for the magazine if it does not sell well because of simply the person on the cover which is the model X-(. Just Media needs to stop being so consumed but that is their job as reporters to dig up junk on people's past and then exploit them all over the TV. I just don't like the Media

I work in a photo studio in NYC that shoots catalogs. The last two plus size models we had in the studio-- one (the better known one) was a 12, the other was a 16.

The size 12 gal did not look in anyway remotely fat. Both gals were modelling size 18 clothing and had to have the jackets and pants pinned on their bodies in the back.

I am just absolutely sick and tired of seeing thin people grace the cover of everything everywhere. America is the fattest nation of all and we are supposed to be motivated to look airbrushed? I want to look like carmen Electra, BUT I dont have the 50K it would take to look like that. Advertisers need to wake up and realize that we want to see big people on the cover of Cosmo and People too!-Curvesgirl

I'm going to be honest with all you... Society is really biasis sometimes they want to have the superthin supermodels and they want full-figured women to do anything in Modeling agencies. I've said it once before and once again they just want women who are trim and thin and I think that is wrong but that is how modeling agancies do you. They put you on their reality tv shows they string you along and then bam you're out of the running and sometimes what I don't get is I was watching America's Next Top Model last night and Kenyah got disqualified because of her weight.

To me Kenyah was beautiful her covergirl picture was great but I just can not stand that Janice Dickerson. She said she was fat and I thought that was wrong to do that to her. Kenyah had more potential than anyone up in that modeling agency. But naima won and I"m happy for her because hse is beautiful and I'm glad she has a Modeling Contract and she's going to be blowing up soon But i just want modeling agencies to look beyond the weight and size because to me its about how they carry themselves if they can do inteviews right and its not all about appearance and I hate that they make it that way

Taneisha

curvegirl05

I agree with you... I'm absolutely tired of seeing them also. They always win comp etitions. I'm about through with America's next top Model because they are so baisis towards people who have a little more meat on their bones. I think they can not grasp the concept that not all thin women are going to always rule the world of the modeling business but that is true they are going to always rule but I can't stop thinking about Tocarra the Plus size model in the 3rd season of ANTM... They stringed her along they made her think she had it grabbed she was voted the covergirl 5 times in a row and I had high spirits for her but I think they degraded her they made her just look out of place.

But I'm looking at Supermodels like. Naomi Campbell, Giselle Bunchen, Heidi Klum. Tyra Banks. Well Tyra made a comment that I thought was very inappropriate to say she said to Kenyah that she could eat anything she wanted because she was already in the modeling business. But I do agree you do have to keep you weight down when you're doing a competition like that.

curvegirl05 and Tiana,

The only way will change the business is to stop paying for it. If every woman who read a fashion magazine wrote a letter about how they felt and didn't by with any of the advertisers or the magazine for a year. We would see the 12P all over the place.

Throughout the history of the world people have always been obsessed with beauty. A Renaissance philosopher said that experiencing beauty reminds us that the divine exists, and offers us a fleeting escape from our own imminent mortality. Maybe that has something to do with why we have the kind of advertising culture that exists.

So, I think, even if we seriously wrote all the advertisers-- we'd still get airbrushed size 12 ladies who didn't look like the average woman and made us feel inadequate-- because if we felt adequate-- an entire industry that is predicated on selling us 'wrinkle cream, control-top pantyhose, wonderbras, lip gloss, hair dye, acne medicine, DIET PILLS, and a myriad of other beauty-improvement items' would fall under threat.

I think the real message that isn't to be missed... is that everything you see in magazines is there because it isn't the norm-- its an ideal that is not real: its ART.
The problem is that people have forgotten to appreciate it as ART, and have set up their own insecurities around an unachievable goal.

I think the most perverse excercise in television that preyed upon this confusion & insecurity was "THE SWAN" where normal fat housewives were pitted against each other in a contest of beauty-- where through extreme excercise, all the marvels of modern medicine, and the deft skills of plastic surgeons these average women could be transformed into beauty queens.

I watched this show-- and although it was disturbing, it was also interesting to watch because as the women were transformed and dressed and filmed they became ART. Whoever they were as people before the transformation was largely forgotten-- and for most of these women, that was exactly what they desired. They got into the contest to get out of their hum-drum lives... even if that escape was for a few brief months before they started to lose the support system (trainers, exercise, nutrionists) needed to keep the in their beauty queen state.

Tiana,

As an aside about America's Top Model: Have you ever thought that is was exactly planned that the show would feature a plus sized model to compete against thinner gals? The exact reason you felt sorry for the model who lost-- is probably the reason the programming people put her there.

They wanted a girl in the competition who America would root for, who would lose. Why else would you watch the show? A show only about a bunch of skinny models is less interesting because most of us can't relate to them!

Yup.

But you don't have to listen to it. You can ignore mass media. Funny thing is though-- most societies will think you a flake if you pay no attention to your appearance at all.

Also-- the other thing about mass media that's funny.

What you say about bound feet and elongated necks was beauty from one culture to the next. The weird thing is that American culture is so adept at mass media-- the pressure for the world to look like the American definition of beauty is increasingly becoming the case.

The best example of this is the success of a tv show like Baywatch-- which has aired in just about every place on earth-- not because it had a good plot, but because the beauty it was exporting and exploiting was universally appreciated.

Catherine Zeta Jones only looks curvier cause she hasa Full c cup compared to Reene Zelwegers barely there A cup

<<What you say about bound feet and elongated necks was beauty from one culture to the next. The weird thing is that American culture is so adept at mass media-- the pressure for the world to look like the American definition of beauty is increasingly becoming the case.>>

I just thought that was weird that those 2 things (feet and neck) are two criteria of being considered beautiful. Women with small feet (under size 10) and women with long "elegant" necks. Seems that American's incorporate a lot of other cultures beauty ideas into their own. But if you take that melting pot theory I guess that is obvious.

Yatravn and r-D you both make good points!

there is no doubt as a whole we are getting larger. you only have to look at antique chairs from 100 years ago or more - most of them wouldn't fit the average person today. hospitals are having to spend extra money on larger beds and special equipment for larger people, ditto airlines

but it is also true that in the olden days being plump was a sign of affluence. now with extra choice, different lifestyle, and less shortages of food things have changed...

Franktroy,

I agree with you... Women do have to have all that to be accepted in this culture that we live in today. Its very diverse but you really don't have to have a Porportional chest... but the rest of what you said women have to have is a requirement. But I think this world has gotton to big for me I mean they are constantly talking about women loosing weight to be on their shows. I can't stop talking about America's Next Top Model because it just makes me mad that they don't accept big-boned people into the modeling agency. They Accepted Eva pickford over Toccara who had the beauty the grace to be a model it was just that she was overweight and they didn't want a overweight model. This year's America's Next Top Model picked Naima over the opposite contestant that was obviously a couple pounds overweight X-( They told her to eat more healthier and she couldn't because she loves eating Carbs and who wouldn't but I just didn't think yeah Kenyah shoudln't of been kicked off But I still think she is beautiful the way she is don't change

Thats my Opinion on A Woman's Body Image

Franktroy,

I agree with you... Women do have to have all that to be accepted in this culture that we live in today. Its very diverse but you really don't have to have a Porportional chest... but the rest of what you said women have to have is a requirement. But I think this world has gotton to big for me I mean they are constantly talking about women loosing weight to be on their shows. I can't stop talking about America's Next Top Model because it just makes me mad that they don't accept big-boned people into the modeling agency. They Accepted Eva pickford over Toccara who had the beauty the grace to be a model it was just that she was overweight and they didn't want a overweight model. This year's America's Next Top Model picked Naima over the opposite contestant that was obviously a couple pounds overweight X-( They told her to eat more healthier and she couldn't because she loves eating Carbs and who wouldn't but I just didn't think yeah Kenyah shoudln't of been kicked off But I still think she is beautiful the way she is don't change

Thats my Opinion on A Woman's Body Image

Toccara problem was she stopped being up beat and comedic. When you are not stick thin you have to play the funny or dependable girl. If not the media has to typecast for you.

Toccara- is going to be on celerbity fit club
what a waste of so much talent. After the show she did get full figured work with ashely stewart/ ZTo go on celebrty fit club is calling attention to a defect ( weight) which is not a defect for her which is fulll size model.

Well ok! The BOTH the world of modelling and the BMI scale is NUTS because at 180lbs, and 5'9" Toccara-- the plus sized model on America's Next Top Model, was maybe 10lbs overweight according to the BMI standard, and didn't look fat to me-- curvy but not obese or overweight.

BUT hey! The world of modelling is NUTS! A gal one my friends in NYC is dating is a model for FORD modelling agency. She's 5'10", weigh 112lbs, and wears a size 2-4-- and yea, that puts her BMI at 16.1 which is underweight but what her job requires.

In fact this gal was even anorexic at one point-- and she weighed 97lbs. At that point a lot of people in her industry said-- wow! You look great, so thin!

Finally when she got to a photoshoot in France, one of the stylists took her aside... and said 'PLEASE EAT, you are too thin.'

So... my point? Well... my point is that models are freaks of beauty who we... maybe... should not aspire to be like.

Well ok! The BOTH the world of modelling and the BMI scale is NUTS because at 180lbs, and 5'9" Toccara-- the plus sized model on America's Next Top Model, was maybe 10lbs overweight according to the BMI standard, and didn't look fat to me-- curvy but not obese or overweight.

BUT hey! The world of modelling is NUTS! A gal one my friends in NYC is dating is a model for FORD modelling agency. She's 5'10", weigh 112lbs, and wears a size 2-4-- and yea, that puts her BMI at 16.1 which is underweight but what her job requires.

In fact this gal was even anorexic at one point-- and she weighed 97lbs. At that point a lot of people in her industry said-- wow! You look great, so thin!

Finally when she got to a photoshoot in France, one of the stylists took her aside... and said 'PLEASE EAT, you are too thin.'

So... my point? Well... my point is that models are freaks of beauty who we... maybe... should not aspire to be like.

Well on Celbrity fit club Toccara started at 199.

Hmm. Looks like she gained all those 19lbs in her bust!

I almost wonder if she deliberately fattened up to do the series.

Well some people do fatten up for tv shows. But even at 199 she looks good.

Haven't seen the show yet, will check it. :)

I definitely don't think there's a magic bullet out there... you have to dedicate yourself to eating well and exercising in order to be healthy. I'm also not going to say that weight will make someone healthy or happy. I'm naturally quite slim, but I know that I'm far from being healthy which is why I need to start eating well and exercising.

I also know that people judge you, regardless of your size (I often get rude comments about my height, people telling me that I'm too thin and so on, but they don't seem to get that it's putting on weight is easier said than done for me and that comments like that hurt too....) What really disturbs me is how celebrities are admired for their extremely thin bodies, but in real life if you're that thin or if you're overweight, people automatically judge you. Sorry, I got a bit carried away with the rant in this paragraph that I got away from what the post is about!

Yeah, I would rather work hard to lead a healthy life, if you take a "magic pill" you're only cheating yourself and would you truly be healthy?

I can't agree with you more. It's really sick how the media has warped our minds. I dont think it will ever stop. But, we have to try to see what we like for ourselves from a healthy point of view. personally, i want to be healthy with a little bit 'back' to me:) i think there is nothing groser then seeing a a guy/girl who is all boney. yuck. I want some meat on my man.lol.

....i'm one of those who voted for "thin even if unhealthy"....basically a "thin at all costs" choice, and that's how i've lived for the last ten years.....my "diet" is to "starve till i can't stand it, binge, then purge it out"....ugggh, i know.

i'm 5-8.5 tall and at age 30 weigh around 100 lbs now. i've always been small-framed, but what i've done to myself now is crazy, i realize (and i've been even thinner than this). i usually respond to people's questions about my size with a casual "oh, i've got fast metabolism"....or "oh, i can just eat like crazy and not gain"......just kind of brush it off....but then i go home and spend all my time and energy weighing, measuring, meal-planning....planning on how to lose 1 pound or drop a dress size or lose a half-inch from my waist. and i think i look great in a bikini, but my perspective is shot by now; i mean to me, looking great in my bikini involves how much of a "gap" there is between my stomach and my bikini bottom stretched across my hipbones....i'll spend hours a night at clothing shops seeing which sizes i can get into, like seeing if i can still wear girls' size tops, etc....

Hey check this out I thought it was especially good for young women to see.

http://www.campaignforrealbeauty.com/

I will opt for exercising since it is the safest option.

Even if this was a side effect free pill, I would still refuse to take it.

I voted to not take the pill...this is something I want to do on my own! :)

I agree. It is hard being an average size woman when you are constanly told you should be better than average.