How is the Modeling Industry influencing societies perception of a "normal" female body? I was reading the news on-line today and I came across a picture that had me scratching my head. This is a photo of a model from the recent Yves Saint Laurent Rive Gauche's ready-to-wear 2003 spring-summer collection, in Paris.

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/nm/20021007/mdf123218.jpg

Does anyone think that this person looks healthy?

What are you trying to do to me, Jim? Scare me?
No. I think that she looks awful (not to mention that her makeup is scaring me the most!).
I know that some women want to look this way (why? I don't know.) I want to feel good about myself, not look like the above picture.
Also, whether we like it or not, for most people, average is now a size 14, not a size 4!
:rose:

Maybe they should have called the event ready-to-scare 2003 :D

She would definitely make the top 10 for scary..aside from the makeup though, what an awful thing to portray..my 9yr old is picking up on things like this now and wonders how to get skinny like that, and that scares me a bit...I know that there are people out there, and perhaps here too that think that looks fit and sexy, but I personally dont feel that way. I'm for a nice healthy trim weight, for me thats closer to a size 10-12. .:x

Well..ummm...I like her shoes but everything else has to go! Fifteen or twenty pounds would do her well. Ofcourse, she is beautiful, but she looks unhealthy. I think the Lane Bryant models are the perfect size.

- Kim

OH OH. I don't think she looks un-healthy. The makeup is awful, but I think her shape looks nice, and her face isn't too thin. But I usually think most models look bad. :tomato:

Sorry, I have to go with the majority on this one. Ick! Yucksville!

The real question is, do men really find this attractive? I know my guy doesn't. But really, why can't the media just stop it? It's a health risk for all young girls. X-(

I hate to judge. I'm sure that there are people who are naturally this thin (although few). Maybe this person has a regular diet and is just one of those people who can not gain weight (somehow I doubt it). Personally I think she looks gaunt (and the makeup is not helping). I would not think of trying to guess a woman's weight, but I think it is pretty clear that she is well under the acceptable weight limit for her height (I have not seen a chart that goes below 100 pounds...at least for adults). I can only think of 2 reasons why a person would be this thin:

1 - She is eating normally and her body is unable to metabolize the nutrients = medical problem
2 - She is starving herself to look like this = mental problem

Either way this person has a problem and would not (at least to me) be a good candidate to represent the "ideal" female figure. I find it sad that this is the "status quo" for much of the modeling industry. Makes me kind of glad that I do not have daughters.

perfectparanoia - if you have not already guessed, I do not find this person attractive. I have a feeling most "guys" would not (even if you got rid of the rocky raccoon look).

That is scary! :eek: But most women would do better spending less time looking at those kind of pics, and working on positive self talk for a better body image and self-esteem.

Just my 2 cents.

Of course guys don't find thin girls attractive. They like big girls, after all look at all the big girls in dancing in bikinis in music videos , Victoria Secret, Playboy and on the posters on the walls of any garage or most of our boyfriends' rooms. X-( Models become rich and famous on the basis that no one finds them attractive. 8-| I'm not saying that guys don't consider the person inside attractive and important as well, but they are not drooling over that Anna Kornikova picture spread beacuse they think shes a really nice person.
I think the model looks just great, however I do think her eye makeup is scary...but she didn't put in on. Maybee she is really skinny, but how would she feel if she read the posts saying she looked bad and scary. Maybee there is a problem with the ideal wieght charts, not models....

Originally posted by Raven McCoy
Of course guys don't find thin girls attractive. They like big I think the model looks just great, however I do think her eye makeup is scary... Actually, I meant the makeup was scary, and meant her no disrespect

This is a diet board, and what I meant was the women need to stop all that negative talk in their head. "Oh, I am so fat, what's the use, I am so ugly."and often times, when we lose the weight, we still have a distorted body image, and are unhappy with body parts. We are much happier when we learn to love those little flaws that make us unique, and to other people can truly be attractive.

Do you understand where I am coming from?
Yes, I can do this.
I am beautiful
I have control over this

Doesn't that feel much better? Say it often enough and make it a reality.

Pam Anderson, (and most porn/playboy models)= skin, bones + IMPLANTS, (big dif). I'm JUST trying to be realistic, but you are right most guys took down those posters after the 7th grade. I wish I liked my looks I think thats why I am so negative. And your pity is likely warranted I've been screwed over by men more times than almost anyone I know.
Even if most of you guys disagree with me, I really find the discussion interesting (just want ya to know).

"the women need to stop all that negative talk in their head. "Oh, I am so fat, what's the use, I am so ugly."and often times, when we lose the weight, we still have a distorted body image, and are unhappy with body parts." And that really hit home for me, I'll be the first to admit I think I'm ALMOST more unhappy with my body now than I was heavier, but as I've been obsessing about it for as long as I can remember, I want to finally make a change and get thin enough that I will never feel there is something wrong with my body.
In the meantime....
"Yes, I can do this.
I am beautiful
I have control over this

Doesn't that feel much better? Say it often enough and make it a reality"
I'll honestly try

Another thing I wanted to say that I wasn't trying to put down mine or anyone's boyfriend, or say it was nessisarily wrong to have posters on walls, my point was that guys often say one thing because they know that is the "right" thing to say.
A guy I was seeing, (a DR. no less), told me he didn't like terribly skinny girls. He said that Gwenyth Palthrow was way too skinny, but Jennifer Lopez was huge and unattractive, and that Britney Spears was too "thick" I mean come on....these girls differ by how many pounds...like every woman is just suposed to find this perfect medium and not deviate a pound from that. Plus I love Brit, I think she's perfect. Then he guessed my BMI was 25, (I was 5'5'' and 120), so I broke it off with him X-(

Originally posted by twelvepercentt

We are much happier when we learn to love those little flaws that make us unique, and to other people can truly be attractive.

Yes, I can do this.
I am beautiful
I have control over this

Doesn't that feel much better? Say it often enough and make it a reality.


You have touched on a point that is so very important. We need to love ourselves where we are at this point. We need to believe in ourselves and make it happen. Thanks for the reminder. :x

Yes, I can do this.
I am beautiful
I have control over this

Thanks guys. You know, I am beautiful, I mean I am no model but I cetainly have the girl next door good looks. And you know what, I would rather be 'cushy' (as one of my ex-boyfriends put it) and happy than thin and miserable (having been on both sides of the fence).

I think we all just need to focus on what is good and healthy for us. I don't think any of us particularly want to be runway models or playboy models and most of them are too thin. As for BMI, 20-25 is the healthy norm so neither of these categories fits this as Yatravn quotes them.

And we need to focus on the positive changes that have come about. The Shakira and J Lo's of the world have buns and hips and they are considered to be incredibly sexy.

Also, (no offence to any males out there) some guys just want 'arm candy' (as one of my guy friends puts it). Which is someone to make the rest of their guy friends jealous.

There is a lot of pressure on them too. I mean girls will be catty behind your back but guys will tease each other right to each other's faces. And trust me, a fat girlfriend is pretty good ammunition.

I wish upon all of you the strength to ignore the images thrown at us by the media.

I saw these models on television. .NOW they wonder why teenagers have such bad self image problems?? There aren't only models that look like this there are tv actresses as well..just look at calista flockhart.. http://www.fortunecity.co.uk/meltingpot/abbey/279/trialh2.jpg and tori spelling..

Also one more thing??? Having a sister that used to work with models?? those girls thrive off of a bowl of salad and a little bit of protein PER DAY...The are considered overweight if their hips bones and rib cages do not show through.. Another thing?? Have you ever seen those girls walk down the runways?? The strut like roosters>> ROFL.. Believe me.. at age 19 I was that thin and I would never want to look like that again..

That explains a lot Joanne. It makes me wonder if a person who can go to such an extreme (like starving) to maintain a "look", can TRULY feel very good about themselves (kind of sad :( ).

A couple points about guys:

1 - All heterosexual men like to look at women. They can not help it, it's genetic. There is a very small primitive portion of a mans brain (the monkey brain), that constantly tells him to go to the other side of the hill and spread his seed. The more evolved higher functioning portion of the male brain can control the impulses of the "monkey brain" (in most men), but it can not get ride of it. Most men do not really understand why they are drawn to look at images of women (posters or what not), where in actuality they are just trying to make the "monkey brain" happy. My point is, ALL guys would have posters or images of other women on his walls if he thought he could get away with it. A "real" man in a "real" relationship is one that has just been trained to deny the "monkey brain" (I'm pretty well trained).

1a - One other point about guys looking at posters is that these are just images. This image is not real, and has no personality. Any traits associated to the image is an idealized creation in the mans head (fantasy). This perfect fantasy could never exist in real life. So, getting upset about a poster is getting upset about something that could never be (if a guy has posters of ex-girlfriends...you might want to worry).

2 - Guys (who are out of school) talking badly about other guys significant other is really considered taboo especially when it is a serious relationship.

3 - Guys are initially drawn to certain women because of the "Monkey brain". If a long term relationship is going to develop, the woman must also appeal to the larger portion of the brain, since this is the portion of the brain that is in control (well...at least eventually...in most men). My point is, if you do not like yourself for who you are (flaws and all), the best you can ever hope for is to attract monkeys ;)

Actually I know for a fact that my husband has a calendar in his locker with topless women on it.. BUT it doesn't bother me.. or if he watches those movies.. Afterall.. I'm the one he comes home to and supports anything I do...And we've been married 22 years.

Personally, I would love to hang a few posters, but I realize that my wife would have a difficult time reconciling it with her "Good Catholic" upbringing. Anyway, any long lasting relationship is going to require quit a bit of compromise and the ability not to sweat the small stuff. I'll have been married 11 years next month.

Men look and Women look but who really cares. We put away our posters and put up calendar's... :D

Is she a little skinny... well... thats up to her to judge, not me. If I don't want to be judged myself, then I can't judge others.

I could care less about what "society" thinks. I never have and I never will. I don't care about "what's in" and "what's out". My only hero's are people who actually work hard for a living and not necessarly those who make a lot of money doing that hard work. I wear clothes that I like to wear and I will wear them when I like and during what season I like and any color I like.

I was rereading this thread again. John brings up a very good point here. We complain about people who judge us and yet we turn around and pick apart others. I did it myself in this thread and I don't feel really good about it. The focus needs to be on ourselves and who we are....not whether so and so is too skinny, etc. :( Who cares what society thinks. I refuse to get sucked into that.

Preya - The "Nature vs. Nurture" debate is an old one. It is probably a safe bet to guess that Psychology Professors would tend to put more stock in the latter (if all of one's actions were predetermined by genetics, would we need Psychologist?). There is compelling evidence on both sides of the issue. Personally, I like the book "Sex on the Brain: The Biological Differences Between Men and Women" by Deborah Blum that came out last year (this is the author who won a Pulitzer Price for "Monkey Wars" back in 1994). Anyway, she does a really good job tying together evidence from a broad range of sciences (ie. evolutionary biology, neurophysiology, molecular biochemistry, genetics, and anthropology).

Also, I am guessing that you are not nor have ever been a man ("real" or otherwise), so your expertise in this area may be lacking. However, you are correct that if you find these images of women objectionable, your significant other should respect that.

John and Lindasue - It was not my intention to post the picture of the model to critique her as an individual (I am in no position to "throw stones" at the way someone looks), but rather to question the industry that pushes this image as something for women to strive for.

what an interesting thread..
Preya- i am not going to say much from my own opinion as you have pretty much summed it up in your responses here.
I think that Jim has raised a very important point when questioning if this is what women should be striving for. i dont think its really about the model herself. each to their own when it comes to your weight. but when its flaunted in every female magazine around as something to aim for thats just dangerous.
Recently an aussie magazine said that Gwenyth had the ideal body thats just absurd...a body like hers is not something 99% of the population can achieve nor should they want to.
I think there is a huge difference between this pic of the model and one of Anna Kornikova....Anna is healthy and fit Vs ????????????
Just my two cents.
hugs bell :)

Preya - I do not disagree with you. However, you might take note that nowhere in my post did I infer that ALL guys acted in any particular fashion. Only that heterosexual men had a predisposition to look at women (nature), and that MOST men had the ability to control urges precipitated by this disposition (nurture). I think that generalized behaviors DO exist in men (and women), but this is not to imply that people are not individuals. If you read back through this thread (for that matter...this forum), you will notice "guys" being referred to in a generalized manner fairly often (you've done it yourself). The purpose of my post regarding the "guys" perspective, was in response to some of these generalities. The fact is, I am a "guy". Given that, it would seem that perhaps I have some insight into how guys think that is not being offered in a forum dominated mostly by women. From some of the post regarding men (by women), it seems that there was/is some confusion into why (in general) guys act in a particular manner. It was my hope that I might be able to provide some clarity on this. However, I am only expressing an opinion, of which, you are free to disagree with.

Preya,

I am not trying to be mean, but you really don't have a clue. First off, if a guy WAS fantasizing about a woman (random or otherwise), would he tell you? Secondly, I don't know what ALL men think. But what I do know is that when I am hanging out with the guys, be it at the Gym, at the clubhouse, or even at work, the same topic always seems to come up. Do you want to guess what that is? The guys I am talking about are of all different educational backgrounds, income levels, races, ages, married, and single. Some of these guys I know fairly well, many are just casual acquaintances. I am talking about guys I've met from all walks of life, from when I was in the military, to working for a Fortune 50 company. When it comes to thoughts about women, guys are pretty much the same. You may not realize this, but guys for the most part, don't mind sharing their thoughts about women (mainly the perverted ones) with other guys (women they know, women they don't know, women they would like to know, women off TV, etc. etc.). And, I know for a fact that most of these guys would not dare talk this way if their wife/girlfriend was present (or even other women). I am not trying to be crude, but something else you may not know is that 95% of men masturbate (the other 5% are lying about it :o ). What do you think guys are thinking about when they masturbate? Yep...you guessed it! I am not trying to give you the immpression that guys are deviates. On the contrary, many of the guys I am talking about are loving husbands and fathers (even grandfathers).

You may not want to believe this, but I do have a more informed perspective than you. And if it helps you sleep at night, believe that your boyfriend does not ever think about other women. But, you may also want to consider, that I do not know you and I have no vested interest in whether you believe me or not, therefore, I have no reason to lie (to what end would it serve me to make this stuff up?).

Jim

Yea, I know.. its just my normal response to a thread like this.. :D

Originally posted by jimwat
John and Lindasue - It was not my intention to post the picture of the model to critique her as an individual (I am in no position to "throw stones" at the way someone looks), but rather to question the industry that pushes this image as something for women to strive for.

We are getting off the point here .. a little too much.. and keep it G rated.

John (and anyone else who found my last email offensive),

Sorry about the mature content on the last email. I was trying think of a "Family Friendly" euphemism I could use (and there are a lot of euphemisms), but all of them made me sound like I was in junior high (and would have detracted from the point I was trying to make). Anyway, I had a feeling it might raise an eyebrow when I wrote it. I will try to do better :standing with nose in the corner on a self imposed time out:

Jim

Preya,

Okay...I give up! It appears, that at age 19, you've already got guys all figured out. Good for you!

Jim

So who do most men name the most in these torrid fantasies?? (Genuinely curious).
Yatavn, you seem like (totally judgemental of me I know) the kind of gal, who takes no crap from a boyfriend, and I deeply adimire that. I enjoy reading all your posts, you have intelligent thoughts and are willing to share them.

(Look away Preya, I am about to generalize)

Raven - It is kind of a line-of-sight thing. If a group of guys are sitting around and a pretty girl walks by, she will be topic of conversation until the next pretty girl walks by. In my experience, guys will more often choose to talk/think about women they do not really know (more common with guys in a committed relationship). The advantage (from a fantasy standpoint) is that the guy can make up his own ideas about how that person acts. By actually getting to know the person (assuming that the guy IS in a committed relationship and not pursuing extra curricular activities), the guy would only mess up the "perfect" image in his head. For example, a guy is thinking about a girl (that he does not really know) and is fantasizing that she is naughty (and needs a spanking :D ). The guy then has a conversation with said girl and discovers that she is on her way to her Bible study class (another fantasy bites the dusk). One reason that guys like pictures, poster, and calendars is that there is a VERY low probability that he will actually get to know the person in this image. Hence, the girl in the image can forever be the person he creates in his head.

(Okay Preya...you can look now)

Preya - I get your point. MY point is that "groups" DO have tendencies (if they did not , there are a lot of companies wasting billions of marketing dollars in demographic research). I agree that we are all free thinking individuals, and it is unfair to label people because of their race, age, gender, etc. However, there is an old saying "If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck, it is probably a duck" (I hope that none of the ducks YOU know would be offended by this....Sorry, I could not resist).

I hope that I have not offended you in any way. That was not my intention. I do sometimes get a little caught up in the debate because I enjoy the challenge. Anyway, I am willing to move on if you are.

Another point that might factor in to the guys and posters. Yatravn (I asuming that is you in the picture). You already look like a poster model etc (really pretty and photogenic). I'm not very pretty and have many figure flaws. Many if one is perfect the need for fastasy is reduced. Gonna need another male opinion I guess. Do you think Heidi Klum mate has bikini pics on HIS wall? :D

Raven,

Thank you for the compliment. I can't answer your question but I know something else: You might think I'm pretty but that doesn't mean I have perfect self-image. People tend to focus on their own flaws no matter what they look like. Also, in studies conducted on self-image, there was no statistically significant difference between the self-images of those who fit the traditional description of "beautiful" and those who didn't, suggesting that self-image at least, has very little to do with how one ACTUALLY looks. This is why it's important to note that changing one's physical appearance won't NECESSARILY change the way one feels about one's self.

Preya:flower:

Raven - Keep in mind that fantasies are just that. Not real. Us guys may not be that sharp, but we've figured out that we ALL can not date Heidi Klum. Plus/And physical attraction is only one aspect of what makes two people click. There is someone for everybody, and what is going make the relationship is NOT physical appearance (relationships based on looks are doomed to failure). Most guys understand that their attraction towards the female form is just that, nothing more. It reminds me of a show I saw (I think it was on the Comedy Channel), were they put a hidden camera near a park with lots of couples. As the couples would be walking towards the camera, they would send a really umm...how do I say it...VOLUPTUOUS woman past to try to catch the mans reaction on tape. It was really funny to watch how all of the men tried to sneak a peek (with varying degrees of subtlety), without their girlfriend/wife noticing (although, some of the men were just blatant). It was also funny to watch the womens reaction when they played back the tape for her. Also, it is kind of ironic that, for some reason, the guys that do have the "Heidi Klum" type wife/girlfriend are often the worst at this type of activity. Which, kind of makes sense, as there is a good chance that this is the guy would rate physical appearance as a very high priority (just my opinion, I know that there are a lot of good looking women with more to offer than a pretty face and their "guy" is attracted to them because of this...bla bla bla...please don't flame me)

In my own opinion I like the way she looks. not her makeup and stuff but her height and weight. Being myself which is a short muscular girl makes me want so badly to look like her.