Weight-loss program for half-ton man could cost millions: doctors (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=1419&e=6&u=/afp/20040812/hl_afp/us_obesity&sid=96001004)
Wed Aug 11, 8:47 PM ET

SIOUX FALLS, United States (AFP) - At his heaviest, Patrick Deuel tipped the scales at just over half a ton, and doctors said his morbid obesity was in real danger of killing him.

He had not gone outside his home in seven years, had almost succumbed to heart failure, and had to be ferried to a lifestock scale to be weighed.

In early 2004, with his health fast deteriorating, Deuel and his wife sought medical help, but hospitals in his native Nebraska balked at the cost of caring for him, fearing his state-provided health insurance would not cover the tab.

"Doors just kept slamming shut on us," said Patrick's wife Edith. "I got really worried. He was hanging on by his fingernails."

It wasn't until a group called the League of Human Dignity intervened and found a medical center in neighbouring South Dakota to admit him that the bed-ridden former restaurant manger finally got some help.

In June, the Avera McKennan Hospital in Sioux Falls, South Dakota admitted Deuel, then weighing 486 kg (1,072 lbs).

The hospital may have to pick up much of the estimated three-million-dollar tab for his treatment, but the alternative was stark. "He didn't have much time left," said Deuel's lead doctor, Fred Harris.

The 42-year-old was suffering from a constellation of obesity-related diseases including heart failure, diabetes, pulmonary hypertension and severe arthritis.

The logistical problems involved in moving Deuel were daunting -- he could not fit in a standard ambulance, so his doctors had to go to Denver, Colorado, to find one equipped with a special gurney and ramps to load and carry him.

Hospital staff had to connect two beds to accommodate Deuel.

But in just eight weeks on a 1,200-calorie-a-day diet, he has dropped 145 kg (321 lbs) and doctors hope he will shed another 204 kg (450 or more lbs) over the next 18 months to two years, under the careful supervision of a team of eight doctors and several nurses.

The plan is for Deuel to lose enough weight to lessen the pressure on his heart, get his diabetes in check and build up his strength so that he can safely undergo stomach-stapling or gastric bypass surgery.

"There have been depressing times," said Deuel, but he's looking forward to the day he can walk out of hospital and enjoy going for a walk with his wife.

"I'm really looking forward to that," he said.


Source: Yahoo (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=1419&e=6&u=/afp/20040812/hl_afp/us_obesity&sid=96001004)

Oh MY! What a rough road this man has yet to go down - my prayers will be with him and his family.

Beth :not:

WoW! 321 pounds in 8 weeks?! Wish i could do that, lol! (just change the 321 to 15 and the 8 weeks to 8 days ;)

Three million dollars, that could have gone to other patients, kids, prevention programs, because this guy wouldn't control his eating patterns.

Jump - the same argument can be made for people who refuse to quit smoking, refuse to wear a seatbelt in a car, a helmet on a bike/motorcycle..

People who do drugs in excess, drink alcohol in excess, people who don't exercise.. You don't have to weigh over 1000 lbs to be a burden on society.

Corinna

Three million dollars, that could have gone to other patients, kids, prevention programs, because this guy wouldn't control his eating patterns.

Oh yes he wouldn't control his eating - clear up to over 1,000 lbs!

Replace wouldn't with could not and I bet you have a much more correct word!

Beth :not:

True, and I can see your point, the other side of the argument. Lets be honest, a persons heart goes out to this guy, it is only human nature (well at least I hope so).
I used to work on the hospital budget committee when I was on staff (thank God I went into private practise, but thats nether hear nor there). The biggest consideration when I look at this, yes, you are really helping this guy out which is fantastic. Yet you will loose patients at the other end of the spectrum who could be deemed more worthy yet people do not see this end of it because they can not match it with a face. So it is an easy choice, I feel good because I am helping this man out and I can choose to be ignorant of the rest. Ignorance is bliss, I do it all the time, great way to feel good about myself and rationalize away any responsiblity. Heck, I could not be bothered, too confusing to figure out, I am such a good person because I think he should be helped, not my problem, they are all crooks.., whatever my rationalization reason is for the day. Yet it comes down to a choice of patient A or patient B,C and D. You have to make decisions. So they choose this man, fine, then they chose against somebody else. That story will not hit the papers though.

Hear in California, and elsewhere your health-care costs will be raised by an average of about 10 to 15% every year just to keep up (a more realistic number is around 20%). That is cool with me, I have great health-care because of the profession I work, salary other considerations, I can afford it no sweat. Yet for the majority of people out there, this is going to hit them like a ton of bricks. Also may heath care providers are going to start doing a lot more pre-screening with much, much, much stricter standards of people wanting to join and already existing members. If your company is covering you with insurance what do you think there response will be to rising costs?

Hmm, I have Suzy hear, she is xx lbs overweight, diabetes, heart-problems and xx years old. Good Sisters of the Holy Cross hospital used to have a prevention program, exercise room, classes yet that had to be cut out of the budget. There used to be full enrollment. Now instead, we only see Suzy when the problem gets to such a state that it is life or death. Too bad Suzy. But we didn't see Suzy in a story.

Or maybe it is a pre-natal health care for an expecting mother. Now instead of having somebody check up on her she is on her own. She has a troubles with the pregnancy, the child has medical problems when born or worse. Yet she was not in a story either, too bad.

They are helping this guy, which is cool. Personally I think everyone should be helped but then as a people, we are not willing to pay for it so somebody is going to be cut out. So when heath care insurance denies your enrollment, your costs go up, your company does not offer it as part of your job...., it gets into a whole ball of wax.

(This is only an argument for the other side, it is fun to have a debate, it is not an attack against a person as an individual).

I don't feel attacked. :)

Ok, you said that Suzy's program was cut.. Who is to blame? Maybe the hospital had cut out the same type of program and then 1000 lbs guy couldn't get to anything? Maybe the hospital failed first?

I know about materials management departments in hospitals.. Not nearly as much as you do, but I used to sell equipment to hospitals (being a PT, you maybe have heard of Sammons Preston?).. I think you have a point there..

I also think that people, especially older generations, think that the world owes them and they don't have to do for themselves.. Take a pill to fix this, get an operation to fix that.. eat now, worry abuot it later.. Throw everything in the trash, worry about the environment later. I think this guy is more the norm which is annoying in itself. 1000 lb dude just is so in a very outwardly visible way.


Gotta go to the gym.. Debate later! :)

Corinna

Thinking thinking thinking here - smell the smoke ;)

You have made some very good points, and yes I am sure that a part of this decision was made from their judgment concerning "politics - bureaucracy" or whatever they want to secretly call it.

I do apologize for jumping to the assumption you were judging rather then just expressing your opinion or debating :)

However it is not this specific mans fault that they ( the system ) did choose him over others ( be that the case ), and therefore I do wish him the best of care and health..

Also your remark that he wouldn't do anything until this point - instead of considering that possibly he couldn't seems a might unfair.

Just my :2

Beth :not:

Hey, no reason to apologize because your stating your opinion and there is nothing to apologize about. :) If you have a strong opinion, cool, thats what it is all about and I respect that. Not the type to get all in a huff.

Actually I put in the word "would' just for that reason because I think maybe thats where a lot of the controversy or differences of opinion come from. I am judging for sure. I am not saying this guy is a bad guy or that I look down upon him. Too each his own, I think as long as one knows the risks and rewards of their actions, there should be no limitations as far as what he wants to eat, he is his own person. It is impossible to try and start regulating peoples eating patterns unless they are willing to do it themselves and seek help... good luck with that. Yet when the Piper comes to collect his dues (and he always does) then you have to expect the consequences. When the hospital pays three-million dollars for this, I wonder who is going to get left out in the cold ??


With the words "would not" instead of "could not" it automatically brings the aspect of does this person have control or decision making ability to decide his own fate as far as health ? Which a lot of debate is over and self esteem issues.

Is his over-eating an addiction??? Something that one has control over?

If one thinks no, then you generally think this is a question of will. The responsiblity lies with him. He is looked down upon by some for sure because his supposed lack of will-power is there for everybody to see (Which I think is totally bogus, it his his choice, whats the big deal?). He made the choice, he got himself into rotten health even though he knew of that it could cause health problems yet he went ahead and did this anyway. After he goes through the treatment what happens if he decides not to follow the program? Of course you can see where I side.

Along this line I think there is a lot of what I call "self-flogging" or beating ones self up. Example - ' I am a weak person because I have the power of choice and I choose to eat.' Which is also bogus, does not have any reflection on intelligence, genius, character,..who you are as a person...it just shows you like eating. What the heck, enjoy life!!! yet expect consequences

Now if I put this person "could not" control his eating patterns that brings a whole different aspect to the equation. It is something he could not control, his addiction for food is too strong for him to overcome. This is a valid point to bring up and then the cause shifts as well. He could not control this cravings, they were too strong.

BUT Jump, you are assuming its a would not verses a could notsituation - correct? Just asking lol ;)

OK hopefully no one will get offend here as I am just going to "go there".

You are a person with medical knowledge - so now - do you realize how much food a human would have to consume to reach over 1000 lbs????????

There is NO way I buy that this man ate his way to 1000+ lbs
There has to be a medical condition underlaying all of this.

When I worked in a nursing home there was a woman there who was not able to move ( was in a coma ) for 20+ years and through the ignorance of her caretakers ( Dr's included ) she was about 400+ lbs. Now mind you this took many years of being G-tube fed wayyyyyyyyyyyyy too many calories and terrible high fat amounts and not moving at all to reach this weight.

Now lets take a situation much like this mans - in Florida on August13th a 600+ woman who had not left her couch in over 5+ years died. Now this lady never and I mean never never left her couch - to the point that her skin was grafted to the fabric in the couch! After she passed away - they removed her from the couch and weighed her body which was about 420+ lbs the total weight of 600+ included the couch. Hence again - this lady never moved and was at a weight of 420+ lbs. full story at http://www.wftv.com/news/3643877/detail.html

See my point?

Now there is no way any one will convince me this woman chose to lay in her own body waste for 5 years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is a could not not a would not situation in my opinion, much like this 1000+ lbs mans situation is.

Going into a total different direction here - this man is a diabetic so he was under someones medical care and they just watched this man go up to 1000+ lbs???????? SHAME on them!!!!!!!!!!!!!! X-(

SO all in all I guess I am saying your are right on the whole medical reasoning and cost of $$ and all that, BUT you are wrong to assume this is a would not verses a could not situation.

This man and this woman are victims in my opinion.

Beth :not:

Beth - I have a friend who is a micro-surgeon.. (which will be useful when I'm at goal and want to get rid of my extra skin!!).. he sees people who are very overweight and diabetic _all_ the time in to get their feet amputated.. Most of those people choose to be on the table getting their feet amputated because they couldn't be bothered to help themselves.. It's sad, madenning and pathetic.. I agree with Jumpsoda in that I'm not judging people as people, but judging their choices...

I exercise like an idiot and I choose to eat too much.. I'm sure it saddens and maddens some people.. but I know I'm choosing to eat too much..

Corinna

As for the woman who died in her filth.. She certainly did choose to live like that. 5 years ago, before she fell into a deep depression, she made some very poor choices. It is sad, it is tragic.. But is anyone else to blame? Is anyone else _more_ to blame? She seemed to be in a very messed up situation if her boyfriend and children lived in the same house as her..

I truly think that most people are not victims.. I really do think that people eat their way to 1000 lbs.... if you can't fathom it, it might be how I can't fathom someone pushing 300 lbs or someone who is 120 lbs can't fathom eating their way to 150 lbs.

People choose to view themselves as victims.. others choose to look at obstacles as something to overcome.. I think the difference between a woman dying in filth on her couch and someone who would have kept at rehab to gain strength in the injured leg is attitude.

Not that I think that someone who has viewed life as one big string of disappointments after another can switch their mentality in a second.. but how they view their life and their situation is their choice.

Corinna

Corinna, I read both your posts several times trying to "get it". I guess I am not able to fathom any one making a choice to the extreme of their feet getting cut off and/or dieing or living in your own body waste.


However I do recall something in my life many years ago - it is no wheres near extreme as what we have been talking about but it does help me see your and jumps position more clear.

I was 20 yrs old and my daughter was 5 months old and I was going home for the first time in many years and of course wanted to show off my baby as well as myself. Any ways I went to buy a new pair of jeans and just had a FIT that I had to buy a size 16!!!!! Oh I cried and cried so bad and felt so ashamed facing my family at that size. At that point of my life I could never fathom weighing what I do today. I would have swore on a stack of Bibles that I would NEVER weigh over 240 lbs.

However here I am many years later at 241 lbs by MY choice to make negative chooses - so having said all this I can understand why you and jump feel strongly about it being a choice.

I am still not sure I 100% agree - but I do understand it much more clearer :)

Beth :not:

Here is an update on this man:


SIOUX FALLS, S.D. - Patrick Deuel, who weighed 1,072 pounds when he was admitted to a hospital in Sioux Falls, is doing more walking and soon will move to a new hospital room, where he will spend more time building his strength.


Deuel, who has dropped more than 370 pounds since being admitted to Avera McKennan Hospital June 4, said indicators such as his blood pressure and blood sugar have returned to normal levels. Doctors have been pleased with his weight loss, he said.


"Everything is looking good and they're going to move me out of this floor to rehab," Deuel said.



A statement from the hospital confirmed plans are being made to move Deuel, but officials have not given a specific date.


Deuel said hospital crews are remodeling a room to accommodate him as well as the custom-made bed and other equipment a man his size needs.


Deuel has been staying on a wing devoted to patients needing intensive nursing care following surgery or some other trauma.


Doctors said Deuel, of Valentine, Neb., was dying because of heart disease and other medical problems linked to his obesity and needed acute medical care.


"I have been sick enough until recently that they wanted to keep me here in ICU," said Deuel, who had been bedridden since last fall.


But he said he has been making good progress in recent weeks.


Earlier this month, Deuel took his first steps with the help of nurses and two walkers for support. Now he can stand up on his own and takes at least three short walks a day down the hospital corridor.


"It's really quite a trek for someone my size," he said.


Exercises to strengthen the muscles needed for walking also are part of his daily regimen.


Deuel, who is just under 6 feet tall, is on a 1,200 calorie-a-day diet. His goal is to lose enough weight so he can have gastric bypass surgery, a stomach-stapling procedure.


A former restaurant manager, Deuel has said he decided to tell his story to bring hope to the obese and to call attention to the lack of financial and medical resources available for people his size.


News Source (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=1419&e=2&u=/ap/20040918/ap_on_he_me/half_ton_man&sid=95832457)


Beth :not:

I agree with the would statement. It is obvious he could eat les, look he is doing now. Not having the motivation or the self control doesnt mean that he couldn't stop eating. I see so many people who act like they have no control over their bodies or actions and its all BS. I choose to put the food in my mouth that made me fat, sure I didnt like the outcome but I kept doing it, that doesnt mean that I was physically unable to (couldnt) stop it, it means I chose not to (wouldnt). Now I have made the concious effort to lose weight, and if I do or dont it is all up to me and my choices in life. I too think it is ridiculous that the hospital is spending 2 million dollars on this man, I would rather that money go to pre-mature babies or helping people with diseases who didnt choose them.

Corinna, I agree with your comments 100%.....I do believe that many folks love to play the victim role...I truly was annoyed with myself at 257 which is the highest I have ever been...but having lost over 39 lbs and keeping it off..and still gradually losing I know I cannot allow myself to slip away again....Habits can be broken..and this imo is a habit or addiction...

Louise

I understand eating can be an addiction, and thank god I havent been in his shoes, but if someone on cocaine goes and steals 2 million dollars to support his habit do we just sit back and think "aw, poor guy needs it for his addiction" No we dont. I hold people responsible for what they put in their mouth, whether it be food, alcohol, drugs, cigarettes or whatever. Sure cocaine is an addiction maybe I could have, but since I know better than to take it, it isnt a problem for me. He is much like a person who dies from smoking, or gambles themselves into financial ruin. But if you meet someone who has gambled their families savings away, are you going to turn around and buy him a 2 million dollar house? Just like when people ruin their livers from drinking, they usually arent granted new ones. Its all about accepting consequences for your own actions. I know no one got me to the weight I am at but me, and no one can lose it but me. Sure I would love a team of doctors to worry about it for me, but truthfully if it came down to it, I would also know that me ruining my life was my choice, and I would rather inncoent people be helped then myself.

A whole team of doctors is nice but unless he overcomes whatever caused him to gain weight in the first place, then the whole team of doctors will have to remain forever.

Sure I would love a team of doctors to worry about it for me, but truthfully if it came down to it, I would also know that me ruining my life was my choice, and I would rather inncoent people be helped then myself.